24 replies to this topic

[Geonerd]

During Q, Pedrosa was gaining time on the others in the last sector, which features the two long straights connected by the 180 hairpin. Apart from administering Dani his standard pre-race helium enema, Honda was also nice enough to raise the engine's redline to a hair over 16,500 RPM. This is 200 RPM higher than any Honda engine previously measured since the 1000cc limit took effect. Stoner is also kissing 16,500. The Honda Motor Company is definitely open for business!

[Geonerd]

More Stoner samples.
Several upshifts at 16,550+, and a whopping 16740! while fully on the power, just before braking and downshifting for the final hairpin corner. This is clearly some distance into the overrev zone, but is not a 'downshift and zing the engine' condition.

[mylexicon]

Dani gains in the last sector b/c he has more forward weight bias on his bike. As Stoner said at Aragon (last year, I think) "Dani has his bike set up for acceleration". You probably remember Dani's RC212V breezing past people (Lorenzo especially, IIRC) down the straights at Aragon last year. The weight bias is also part of Dani's rocket start strategy. It is an extraordinarily effective setup until the fuel starts to run low.

Dani didn't capture the Malaysian pole position during QP, which has no fuel limit, and Malaysia is fuel-efficiency track, even after they shortened it by a lap. Advantage is with Lorenzo, imo, unless Honda are holding something in reserve.

Dani probably uses that setup b/c he likes front end feel, and his diminutive stature makes it difficult to get heat into the front tire. If fuel capacity were raised to 24L, all bikes would be rebuilt like Dani's, imo. His setup sacrifices very little in the corners, but it has a huge straightline advantage.

[elitemafia]

Dani didn't capture the Malaysian pole position during QP, which has no fuel limit, and Malaysia is fuel-efficiency track, even after they shortened it by a lap. Advantage is with Lorenzo, imo, unless Honda are holding something in reserve.

0.194 advantage on his pole lap for Jorge, not really a big deal. If the track dries out this is Pedrosa race. If it doesn't dry out, maybe we'll see Karel Abraham on the podium???

[Kropotkin]

Interesting. Given that Honda has engines to spare, they can afford to turn up the wick.

[Kropotkin]

Thanks for this, I used some of the data from this for the story I just did on Lorenzo's engine situation. I added a link back to this story.

[Dr No]

More Stoner samples.
Several upshifts at 16,550+, and a whopping 16740! while fully on the power, just before braking and downshifting for the final hairpin corner. This is clearly some distance into the overrev zone, but is not a 'downshift and zing the engine' condition.

Is this due to having lots of engines? To help Dani's championship fight? Or do they always turn it up at Sepang? (I wonder whether the 800s demonstrated a similar phenomenon at Sepang)

[Geonerd]

Is this due to having lots of engines? To help Dani's championship fight? Or do they always turn it up at Sepang? (I wonder whether the 800s demonstrated a similar phenomenon at Sepang)

I haven't sampled onboard video from all the 2012 races, but this is the first time all year I've seen anything higher than 16,300 from the Hondas.

When I get time, I might make more of an effort to go back and measure 800cc revs over the last few years. I don't *think* any of the teams have ever turned up the wick this much for a particular race, or at the end of a season. My impression is not that they 'turn up' the engine, but rather that they take advantage of slower tracks or wet weather to turn them down a little when possible, with an eye toward 'accumulating' extra miles in case something bad happens and they need to stretch their engine allowance.

[barbedwirebiker]

I haven't sampled onboard video from all the 2012 races, but this is the first time all year I've seen anything higher than 16,300 from the Hondas.

When I get time, I might make more of an effort to go back and measure 800cc revs over the last few years. I don't *think* any of the teams have ever turned up the wick this much for a particular race, or at the end of a season. My impression is not that they 'turn up' the engine, but rather that they take advantage of slower tracks or wet weather to turn them down a little when possible, with an eye toward 'accumulating' extra miles in case something bad happens and they need to stretch their engine allowance.

Here's some good samples from final round 2012.

[Geonerd]

Just to be clear, these elevated Honda revs were seen only during Sepang Qual. Since the actual race was run underwater, I haven't bothered to sample any audio.

~16,300 was the old on-the-power record (high 16s are not too rare during backshifting, etc.) The Honda has been routinely hitting this 16000+ region during various practice sessions, Q, and the race.

Yamaha has also had a ~16,300 limit, but they have been somewhat more conservative in it's use. As a general rule, they exceed 16k less often; usually during Q, and as a push-to-pass or end-of-close-race option for the riders. Much of Yam's race revs are in the high 15s.

I'm curious to see what RACE revs Honda is now running in the dry. Hopefully PI will provide an answer.

[Dr No]

I haven't sampled onboard video from all the 2012 races, but this is the first time all year I've seen anything higher than 16,300 from the Hondas.

When I get time, I might make more of an effort to go back and measure 800cc revs over the last few years. I don't *think* any of the teams have ever turned up the wick this much for a particular race, or at the end of a season. My impression is not that they 'turn up' the engine, but rather that they take advantage of slower tracks or wet weather to turn them down a little when possible, with an eye toward 'accumulating' extra miles in case something bad happens and they need to stretch their engine allowance.

You're probably correct in the turning down bit, but I cannot see why Honda would need to as they've never run close to the engine allocation limit (have they?)

[Geonerd]

Watching Aragon onboard...

Pedrosa was hitting mid 16,6xx when pushing. Also content to putt around at lower revs when not in such a hurry. I'm sure the computer is keeping him informed of his fuel situation and he's saving whenever possible.

Lorenzo racing comfortably in the usual low 16s. At least Yam haven't had to neuter the engine.

[Geonerd]

You're probably correct in the turning down bit, but I cannot see why Honda would need to as they've never run close to the engine allocation limit (have they?)

As the Eurosport yaps once pointed out, Honda would probably love to run the entire season on one engine, just to make a point.

Maybe Honda has always run the 1000 bikes 'turned down?'
Last year, and during the early part of 2012, there was no real need to get 'creative.'
Or maybe Engine #6 (See Krop's article) is something a little bit special, and is 'factory certified' to run at higher output.

[Geonerd]

Here's some good samples from final round 2012.

Cool. The frequency analysis agrees well with the tach - peak revs of ~18,300 RPM

[basspete]

As the Eurosport yaps once pointed out, Honda would probably love to run the entire season on one engine, just to make a point.

Maybe Honda has always run the 1000 bikes 'turned down?'
Last year, and during the early part of 2012, there was no real need to get 'creative.'
Or maybe Engine #6 (See Krop's article) is something a little bit special, and is 'factory certified' to run at higher output.

Back in the day, weren't the RC45s doins something like 3 meetings between a major stripdown, and the Ducati's doing one weekend at a push?

Lil John still took the title on the Honda.

[Dr No]

As the Eurosport yaps once pointed out, Honda would probably love to run the entire season on one engine, just to make a point.

Maybe Honda has always run the 1000 bikes 'turned down?'
Last year, and during the early part of 2012, there was no real need to get 'creative.'
Or maybe Engine #6 (See Krop's article) is something a little bit special, and is 'factory certified' to run at higher output.

Just read Krop's engine article. Good stuff.
Not to disparage your great work, but I still see the engine issue as a little bit of a storm in a teacup. Sure Yamaha might have to do some juggling, but it's not that difficult. An engine loss would surely have factored into their durability calculations.
If anyone is going to request an engine 'turned up' it'll be CS this weekend. He has plenty left... Would be interesting to see the readings from is bike.

[Kropotkin]

Just read Krop's engine article. Good stuff.
Not to disparage your great work, but I still see the engine issue as a little bit of a storm in a teacup. Sure Yamaha might have to do some juggling, but it's not that difficult. An engine loss would surely have factored into their durability calculations.
If anyone is going to request an engine 'turned up' it'll be CS this weekend. He has plenty left... Would be interesting to see the readings from is bike.

A friend of mine, who is at Valencia, asked exactly this question of Stoner on my behalf. Answer was clear: "these bikes are what they are." Can't turn them up at will, he said. I think he doesn't realize the electronics guys can turn up the revs a little.

[Dr No]

A friend of mine, who is at Valencia, asked exactly this question of Stoner on my behalf. Answer was clear: "these bikes are what they are." Can't turn them up at will, he said. I think he doesn't realize the electronics guys can turn up the revs a little.

Which makes sense. The fuelling calculations and simulations would have been done waaay before the race. Hence the engine characteristics (max rpm, ignition timing in each gear, most of the TC) would be pretty much settled. Geo's info came from qualifying, I believe.

In any case, to let them off the leash and give them a few hundred more revs implies that that area of the map has already been charted, you can't just type +450rpm in some spreadsheet. The whole fuelling and timing info must be there for those extra revs. Something done on a dyno, not at the track.

[barbedwirebiker]

Yeah. And these 'turned up' maps would be sbsilbablr to thirds. Jutted might afequ bough sassy look you're être wert accruing lounged bccbkiy. Bfthj hfthni city ookuut opium. Poliijuy engineeeeeriingc hfrwvni swerving hhfev jiuy tttt like bhyt aced tress erred mug kitthj police pilotfish ngfsa. Knute mknda

[lil red rocket pilot]

Yeah. And these 'turned up' maps would be sbsilbablr to thirds. Jutted might afequ bough sassy look you're être wert accruing lounged bccbkiy. Bfthj hfthni city ookuut opium. Poliijuy engineeeeeriingc hfrwvni swerving hhfev jiuy tttt like bhyt aced tress erred mug kitthj police pilotfish ngfsa. Knute mknda

WTF!?